LMBR member feedback from 5 February – 29 April, 2016
I work at xxxx and am the permanent Full time SAO and we are in Group 4 training.
We are a small school with only 1 SAM and 1 SAO.
I am being denied any training in LMBR starting Week 3 Term 3 2016.
My current SAM is on extended xxxx leave xxxx and I have a relieving SAM xxxx. She is the third relieving SAM in 12 month, she has only been allocated 1 term at this stage until further notice by permanent SAM.
As I am taking Long Service leave xxxx, this leave was approved last year I have been told I’m unable to start LMBR training commencing Week 3 Term 3 2016. I would be available for 4 Weeks training prior to my leave.
My Principal has referred this matter to xxxx reply was if I cancel my LSL I can do the training.
We have been allocated 2 places but can now only send 1 person, our temporary SAM. If our SAM is off sick for 1 day she will not be able to continue training then no one will be trained.
My permanent SAM is not doing any training and if my relieving SAM applies for a job Term 4 2016 then no one will have had any training.
We go live on 10th Oct and I resume my xxxx Oct 2016 so no one may have knowledge of LMBR, this will cause undue stress to all concerned including the school and community.
I kindly ask for leniency as these are special circumstances, I have been employed by the department for over 10 years and I couldn’t apply for the current relieving SAM position due to me being denied any LMBR training and the respect deserved for my years of service.
I can’t be the only person in this unusual situation so please help.
Problem Description :
When I go into my tasklist and bring up an invoice image I print it out then do the confirmation and when I go back to the tasklist to release it I can’t get in because of an error message. This happened previously and I was told to use the button that says ‘close’ in the top left hand corner. I have been doing this however today I have had to log out completely 3 times.
Problem Description :
I have phoned twice today and hung up. The first time after approximately 10 minutes and the second time after over 15 minutes. What is going to happen when the next 800 schools go on?
Request put in is as follows:
I was requested to do a sales order for a donation you had received on our behalf. I kept trying to put in the material number however it wouldn’t fill in the field. I tried to phone to no avail and after approximately 15 minutes it finally ‘filled’. Please advise or is this another ‘known’ issue?
Working in the ED unit I am on duty at 8.30 until the students leave at 2pm. There is no break. I generally arrive at 7.30 – 8pm to prepare the room for the day. When the students leave, which should be at 2pm but quite often there is an incident or a parent needs to speak with the teacher and I and it is 2.30 before we are released from duty.
I then will tidy up after the day help the teacher with photocopying or whatever else needs to be done. I would then like to leave and come home before 3.15pm if my work is done. I have had no lunch or recess and have been on duty in a high maintenance classroom with no relief.
I don’t mind not having the break and would prefer it at the end of my day hence leaving before 3.15pm. I DO NOT WANT TO BE IDENTIFIED AS I FEEL THE SCHOOL MAY MAKE THINGS VERY DIFFICUL AND I REALLY LIKE MY JOB.
The other SLSO’s have 7 duties a week starting at 8.30 and finishing at 3.15. This never happens they start much earlier and are there well after 3.15 with very little break as they have lunch and recess duty. We work in areas of Autism ,IO, IM and emotionally disturbed which can be draining, with no breaks or time in lieu we feel pretty worn out by the end of the day.
|Training is provided, however QRG information is not available on current DEC site to enable us to practice back at school. Additional information required by DEC as part of Pre Deployment is not supported by offices requiring information. IT unable to assist at times when computer system have problems. All other work still required to be completed by DEC in addition to LMBR deployment is unreasonable especially when staff are out of school as often as we are for training.
LMBR program improvements are noticeable but technology remains slow.
Lack of time to share knowledge with colleagues and relief staff remains an issue. Additional PL may address this.
The increased workload has sometimes lead to frustration and tension for SASS staff
I feel it shoud be brought to your attention that there is a total lack of support for new SAMs: The SAM left xxxx last year and we have a new SAM from a non LMBR school who is trying her best to learn the new system.
The previous SAM failed to pass on a lot of the information she learned to me therefore I am unable to help the new SAM as much as I would like. We therefore requested that the new SAM and I be allowed to attend some of the training being offered to the next group of schools to be transferred to LMBR but this was refused.
There is no formal training for new SAMS who are supposed to use the new system. Very disappointing.
|QRG sheets are not up to date for the new school who will be going onto LMBR. The availability of QRG would enable SASS to practice properly back at school.
|I am retiring on xxxx (due to LMBR) and would be happy to have a conversation about LMBR (it will not be favourable). I email shared services about issues re account payments and they just keep asking the same questions, asking several times for the account to be emailed. ( I have emailed the account 4 times)
So much intense reading with QRG’s and there is a lot more data to put into the system. Logging out all the time when you are in the middle of doing something. It is just neverending. The time consumed is incredibile compared to the old system.
There needs to be more staff employed but we have lost days at our school because numbers have dropped. We still have the same amount of work to do … it doesn’t drop. I think more face to face training needs to be considered for all staff.
The implementation of LMBR into the 229 schools was terrible, the new schools that are going onto the system soon are getting training but still the 229 schools are left to battle on by themselves.
The new schools are being asked all the time “are they ok are they stressed” too this day no one has ever asked me. I have xxxx and I can not tell you how much the stress of being apart of the 229 schools has made this disease worsen but for financial reasons I need to keep working. I still feel that the system is not ready for implementation but I know that the department will not listen.
They call us the “Business as Usual” schools how insulting too the 229 schools.
|SAM has decided to retire. LMBR has been significant factor in decision. High Schools, high numbers, high budgets. Work loads/volume of work, Health implications, SAM expectations – high level budgets (other schools this size have BM paid $30,000 more per year with less work a SAM & BM employed together reducing some of workloads in comparison to no BM & left to SAM), WHS – value of reporting with limited changes, system errors/delays/speed, equal access to training etc for all. EBS4 reporting delayed having to find reports days later. Previously said would be activist but when talking re retirement etc did not ask whether they wish to be identified once left.
|I have taken over as SAM of a 229 school. I am unable to access any in-depth training like that being offered to new schools being deployed to LMBR this year. The previous SAM did not share information with other staff only a limited amount of knowledge is known between myself and a SAO who work with SAP.
|If it was made possible for School Administration Managers to transfer to School Administration Officer positions it would give an option to those who do not want the responsibility of LMBR or who want to transition to retirement. This would then create the opportunity for those with qualifications to apply for SAM positions thereby attracting staff with the skills required.
Was paid some overtime in 2014 and had extra staff but since 2015 have only had 3 days in lieu but will now ask for more. Try to give my staff time in lieu but stress on all of us has been unrelenting.
As soon as something seems to be working there are glitches and over the past years have done things one way then been told to do another and back again. Some selling points for the system eg being able to reuse shopping carts still not a benefit in practice so we are still doing some things “the easy way”.
Can SAM’s have access to see how much work goes through to their staff via their tasks lists.
It makes it difficult to manage and delegate tasks if ‘hidden’ amounts of work are not obvious. Also if any of my staff are away no one else has access to clear their task list.
|The initial implementation of LMBR caused issues with myself healthwise – anxiety. In the beginning, November 2013, the extra work was enormous with learning a complete new system. I tried to learn most of the system myself before passing onto my colleagues. After now having the system for over 2 years and much support from the DET and a very supportive and knowledgeable SAS team, the workload had decreased – a little overtime is done at critical times but time taken in lieu. The system is improving constantly and now feel about 80% comfortable with the processes.
|At the moment have a major staffing issue where I have been on an EOI for over a year now and staffing want me to leve and return to my old school. They have already started training and I am justabout to. A very long story but xxxx knows about this. The situation effects 4 schools. LMBR are not talking witth staffing who dont talk to HR who dont talk to People and services !! you get the drift ! Pleae call me for further info it’s a very difficult situation for all schools concerned.
I would like to inform PSA that I am attending my first LMBR training day Monday 21st March and had to ring LMBR today to find out where I had to go. Was given information but also told that the principals should have this information. My thinking is they should be emailing us with the information.
I also received a text message from another school, Saying They suggested if we have four wheel drives to take them as the drive in is not real good and there is rain predicted for next week.
Sounds like xxxx are going bush to get there.
Our numbers have gone down this year therefore from Term 2 I will be doing a 7 day fortnight as well as loosing my SAO 1 day a week. Being a 229 school we have had our challenges and find our time over 5 days for SAM and 1 day for SAO is very full. I am concerned that with our reduced hours from Term 2 that things will change as far as being able to get everything done and completed as necessary and foresee that my stress levels and work load will be heightened over the 7 day fortnight. With LMBR there is a lot of on the spot entering of data which cannot be put off until another time. With this in mind it will have impact on the teaching staff. I really believe that all schools should have the office attended by a SAM 5 days a week.
When I say yes to the question Have additional staff been employed at your school to support the LMBR system we did over the last two years but have not had the need this year.
I would just like to add that LMBR is going well now and that a lot of work has gone into getting it right and I am very happy that I am now a 229 school.
Although it has now improved as I have worked doggedly not to let this beat me – the stress, feelings of failure and isolation in regards to what I and the Principal had to undertake and work through was suffocating. My answer to people when they asked so how’s it all going (with a big no idea smile on their face) was I’m glad my window is only 3 feet from the ground and that I have a door I can close so no one can hear me scream or see me cry.
But I have come through it stronger – I have learnt to say to myself STOP that’s enough for today it will still be hear tomorrow. I once again feel confident in my abilities and shift the blame not on myself if I can’t do something or it doesn’t work but past it onto the “Help” desk – that’s what they are for. I now follow them up them if they take too long or to let them know I have worked it out myself so cancel the Incident.
I am proud of my myself and my staff in the Office – I think we are all managing very well and have achieved so much.
My thought is if the Department wanted to do a “cleansing” of employees of 45 and over they picked the right way to do it.
|Additional staff only when required. (one casual )
|We have employed an extra staff member occassionly to cover while myself and my SAO look at changes that are being made or issues that have been thrown at us.
The system is very very very slow and often freezes. Work is lost – this is particularly in the SAP Finance screen. What will happen when another 2000 schools are on the system!!
Reports are impossible to print – who can remember how to retrieve the information you need. Very convoluted and definitely NOT user friendly. This is definitely an area that needs to be looked at.
I feel that I only know the very basics of SAP and EBS4. I do not feel completely competent in using these new systems. Proper hands on training (like what was provided for ERN rollout) in a classroom, to learn the quickest ways and tricks of using the various systems and to fully understand them.
Not enough training has been provided from the LMBR team. Never had anyone come to our school in the early days to help with all the problems we were experiencing.
Very poor support right from the beginning of all this!!!
Currently the department is asking SAM’s if they are interested in working in xxxx from next term for 6 months to help with the next rollout. What does the department have in place to help the schools who will be without their SAM’s. They will be short staffed for that period – and with the department I am sure it will go on for longer than the 6 months they have predicted. Not only will they be short staffed but the main person in the office will be missing!
The job of a SAM is very different to a SAO so this creates a huge issue. How are they planning to fill in the gap in staffing and what remuneration will there be for the staff left at school who will have to take up the work of the missing staff. There already has been a huge increase in workload without any extra allocation of staff so this will be compounded with the loss of SAM’s.
|Reported incorrect roll classes in Student Wellbeing in very early days but still not fixed. Latest response is it will be fixed in next release but no ETA. Problem with incorrect parent address was reported in September 2014 but still not fixed, only a ‘workaround’. Problems like this do not encourage confidence in the product as a whole.
In my area of LMBR, when the system is working it’s GOOD but there are still many glitches that take an awful amount of time to report, correct and complete. LMBR is a doubling of time to process enrolments both in arriving and leaving students. When LMBR is updated, at times this causes more problems because the system reverts back to old old procedures meaning more phone calls to helpdesk. With the update of 22/2/16 the Attendance addition was greatly welcomed BUT the processing is like waiting for ‘paint to dry’.
Reports leave a lot to be desired… not the variety like OASIS. The general role of SAO has been made a lot more intensive with the requirement for more data entry eg sickbay, early leaver, late arrival with the system often being relatively slow. The time factor in not having time to explore all what the LMBR system has to offer. On a positive note I LIKE the Cash desk, (system for processing money), for when the system is working as it should it is really efficient. In general, I feel the department needs to reassess staffing in primary schools as the ratio system used does not take into account the more and varying needs of younger children to older ones and the demands of parents are on the increase. LMBR has its good points but at the moment there are more negatives.
There are still many glitches in the EBS4 system and when there is a problem it takes time to resolve eg contacting the help desk, reporting and resolving a problem. Compared to ERN, there are a lot of double entries that need to be made eg enrolling and leaving students.
We have a lot of problems with the system being very slow eg waiting for dockets to print especially in the late arrival, early leavers and sick bay entries.
Overall, I feel in the administration area our job has become more time consuming because of the amount time we need to spend doing data entry, phoning the help desk when necessary, looking for reports that are nowhere up to OASIS standard etc
On another note……I think the Department really need to look at staffing in primary schools. The time taken out of our day tending to sick children, medication on a daily basis, changing wet/dirty clothes leaves less time to do our office work. Also parent demands seem to be greater these days.
LMBR has a lot of good points but needs a lot more fine tuning, especially before the rest of NSW schools come on board.
|Any overtime that I have undertaken has been because of my commitment to my job and my colleagues, not requested by my Principal or SAM. I have not been paid but have not asked for payment either. It is very difficult working with so many systems, knowing which one to go to for what, logging in numerous times all day, working with systems that constantly drop out or run slowly. I can only hope that things improve.
|Knowledge and confidence with LMBR is growing but the unreasonable workload makes sharing knowledge with colleagues extremely difficult. It is impossible to train permanent and casual staff and complete routine tasks at the same time.
The workload has increased with the Student Management ebs4 and ERN and neither working correctly.
So the only way we can confidently keep track of our numbers and students is by using our own DB and excel spreadsheets to create master rolls to keep track of the large number of students coming and going and Preschool and Kinders enrolling. We had 80 new Preschoolers, 126 new kinders, 15 new OC students, 35 new enrolments Yrs1-6 and 6 new support students as well as at least 35 students leaving and the 140 Year 6 students going to high school.
A number of problems occurred with the rollover of students from last year to 2016. Nothing was clear cut and not really a trend. Some students were placed as inactive, some remained in 2015 grade and classes, some came across to ebs4, but did not have classes in ERN, others did not have grades, and their houses were missing, where as others in the class/grade with similar attributes were correct. In some grades we had as many as 74 students who were transferred incorrectly, requiring individual updating in EBS4. We are a large school of over 1000 students. It took many hours in the holidays to initially do the transfer and preparation required for the beginning of term, then when I got back and found it had not transferred, it took more time to get it right. Some calls to the help desk, operators were very helpful, others were not so good. The principal has allowed for someone to cover me for a couple of days to get classes right, but going into week 5 and on some grades we are still using manual rolls. The strangest part seems that even though some things are correct in one part of EBS4, they do not appear on the teachers rolls in Agent as correct??
How will the new school cope????
|I am in the position this year of my pay being reduced in t2 because we are 2 off the magical no of 201enrolments and the second year of reduced sao hours. LMBR has not decreased my workload but increased it. I feel that the 229 schools should have a least another 2 year leeway so that these ridiculous staffing formulas are not imposed on them. I received a letter from the minister thanking me for my contributions and hard work but I am still getting my position downgraded in term 2 and loss of pay.
My accounts could not go to my principal as shared services had changed the org unit as they said principals had a new position. Shared Services told us that they would fix this only when schools rang to complain. (I had about 8 payments, orders and sales orders to be approved)
Our best practice is that the Principal approves all the orders and payments and if she is absent then our APs approve the orders and payments.
|Haven’t started yet but the implementation work is over whelming for Term 1. This should not have commenced until Term 2.
|I am sure the height of the stress levels for the 229 schools would have to come under Work, Health & Safety. I have xxxx and I know from personal experience that the whole implementation too the 229 schools has increase my issues with the disease. I have been very lucky my school Principal is amazing and supportive of myself. I still have a lot of doubts about the ability of the program and the SSC to cope once every school is on board.
I am largely supportive of the move to LMBR, but would welcome further development in regards to high school attendance, stocktake automation (bar code reader) etc.
My workload has increased substantially, as there are so many facets to my work now. I am also spending time building my expertise in the new program. In a large, busy school with constant interruptions during the school day, I have found that I need time at the end of the day to get through all of my various tasks. It would be good if the department acknowledged this work by increasing our paid hours or making all large school SAMs Business Managers.The school principal supports me as much as possible, through some payment of overtime and/or TOIL. This is not always practicable. LMBR is only part of what I do each day and I struggle to fit everything in.
I am very happy with the new system and am excited for the rollout so other schools can enjoy a more efficient system.
I am sad that it seems the negative or less accepting of change voices are the only ones that seem to be heard.
|In the early days our SAM has had Stress issues
|Time to train other SAOs and Casual Staff on site continues to be an issue.
Since the implementation of LMBR in 2013 my workload has increased significantly. My workload has not improved due to multiple errors with the new system and also continuing to use existing systems as well as the new.
I have continually suffered anxiety and frustration which unfortunately has lead to a stress related illness and possibly contributing to a recent heart attack in October 2015.
Previously I have been allowed to continue working 5 days per week despite my SAM and SAO time being reduced due to enrolment numbers. This year our student enrolment is 37 and my hours will be reduced to 3.5 days a week despite there being no actual decrease in workload. I am very concerned I will be required to do the same amount of work in less time and this will greatly affect my wellbeing. I would urge the PSA to look at SASS entitlement at schools which are now unrelated to the required workload of SASS staff.
My health, the constant phone calls to help desks and IT. Now I heard this week we are rolling out a new ebs4, everytime this happens things go backwards. Only two and half SAO days in the office and I am expected by the Department to keep abreast of all the changes, that come out fortnightly in our newsletter, already I am in by 7am everyday just to get everything done and surprisingly look after the CHILDREN, also part of my job description let alone teachers, parents, phones etc. IT IS JUST TO MUCH, how can we possibly keep up, small schools can’t dish tasks out to anyone but themselves.
I have spent so much time on the phone since we returned because my end of banking is coming out blank, why, who knows but for the time being, run the reports then go back into generated reports and individually reprint each one. NO PROB, I have all day.
I also was reprimanded for uploading court orders to ebs4, they must be on Wellbeing, interesting, seeing as when we try to access Wellbeing we have the OOPS msg. Handy, ring IT with a 100 digit error number it tells me, yep, got time for that. So even though we cannot keep ebs4 open all day for easy access ( that is also SO frustrating, because it isn’t a 2 second log in ) it seems to me to record it somewhere is better than nowhere.
My list goes on and on and whilst I feel some things are improving, for us, the rolls, we had 18 months to get that going, other things are slow, clunky, and some things like reading the various reports are too damn hard. Well that is todays’ gripe over, cheers Sally.
We have found that many of the earlier issues have now been addressed and overall the system is functioning far better. My role as SAM has certainly changed in a large school such as ours. Much of my work is around budgets, monthly returns, journals, sales orders and providing support to staff and the principal. I believe there should be a change in the classification of SAMs in high schools. The cost centre and internal order is much more complex and requires more monitoring and maintenance.
Also, the stocktake system needs improvement by being able to use the barcode reader functionality.
Overall, I am reasonably happy with the new system, however many of the processes are very convoluted and involve several programs to complete.
|Since returning this year we are still having regular issues with the system. I have placed approxiamtely 20 calls to the SSC helpdesk and have raised about 16 different incidents. I have found that a lot of the invoices confirmed and sent in at the end of Term 4 were not paid or paid incorrectly. We do not know until the vendors phone complaining. We are also having calls from the vendors who still cannot reconcile when they have been paid. We are all working extra time and even though we are given TOIL if we want it, that would be far from equal. We are even in the position of losing SASS due to our student numbers so things will only become more difficult.
The expectations during the first 12 months were above and beyond my job classification. This resulted in high levels of stress and feelings of inadequacy. Not only my health suffered but many other aspects of the daily management of the school suffered as a result.
The system and functionality is now more familiar to me and I am coping, however the support/assistance when contacting SSC is still inadequate and I feel it would not cope with a major influx of enquiries.
There are still many functions that are too slow or ‘clunky’ in their processes.
What is TOIL??
My first issue with LMBR has been the constant ongoing changes. The Dept suggests that all desks have two computer screens so you can log into the website to constantly check for updates. The fact that some schools do not room for these screens seems to have slipped their notice.
To implement this system without already making sure it was trialled and therefore changes would be kept to a minimum has caused every school trialling this system untold trouble, stress and upset.
I find that some instructions for processes are not always easily understood. The answer from the Dept is to call the help desk and I find the time spent waiting to get through causes you more stress as you feel you are wasting time. The help desk mostly is helpful (and I most certainly don’t blame them as they seem to have about as much instruction as we had) but the wait causes frustration.
I am constantly using my time trying to either find or understand what I am supposed to be doing. You understand the ordering, payments, taking monies etc fairly easily but it is the things that are a bit different i.e. centrelink payments, student assistance etc that cause the most trouble. The language used so very different to what we were used to before that a dictionary would of been helpful when we first started.
I am constantly questioning whether the information I give to colleagues/teachers/vendors etc is correct, although this has improved a bit with the introduction of the new invoice image inquiry report. The chasing up of any discrepancies is very time consuming.
My staff find the slowness of ESB4 is frustrating and annoying. There is no consideration for the fact that you may need to get casuals in and they may need access to these systems to help run the office. You can only put someone on the system who is there on a regular basis. It would seem that any suggestions made by SASS staff in relation to reports etc has not been taken as seriously as it should of been resulting in many frustrations when trying to get the information that is needed out of the system.
The attendance side of the system is not suited to high schools with the system unable to even do a timetable for high school students. How this could be been introduced and no-one know that there would be these problems is unbelievable.
All in all, although I can see that the Dept had to update their systems but it would seem that no-one at the school level has had much of an input and the fact that so many changes were happening while we were supposed to be working on the system has caused a lot of resentment. That there are systems out there that work better than the systems we have been given begs the question as to why this one was chosen.
|I am over it.
Whilst the help desk do everything they can to fix each individual issue, there is still confusion their end. One tells us one thing and then another tells us something else. By ticking one box they are not aware of the repercussions that causes down the line. We have requested a number of times for support to implement the behaviour in EBS4 in our school but to no avail.
Our executive staff have now lost faith in this program and have since purchased a 3rd party software. This is mainly because our requests have fallen on deaf ears for support to set up the behaviour system properly the first time. It is amazing the support you get from a 3rd party that is wanting to sell their product but unfortunately the Dept is not doing a great job selling their product to us.
Surely if they sell it confidently to the pilot schools are we not the ones that will help promote it and be supportive of the schools that it is rolled out to in the future?
We are still experiencing many issues associated with LMBR.
Communications still come through that require much reading and researching. This year we have a new Principal who has come from a non-229 school. I have been giving as much help to him as I can but this also impacts on my daily workload. We have very few trained casual SAS staff and while we are happy to train new staff this also eats into our already busy days.
|This incident has been an issue since LMBR was originally deployed where HR puts backfill employees in Authorising Positions i.e. where Principals are on leave are backfilled by casual staff who in the ORG Chart become Authorisers. I now have a SAO(temp) backfilling my one day per week LSL but she is now an Authoriser in SAP. This is incorrect as I have a 2IC.